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Poster: rastamon Date: Mar 7, 2009 9:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Just me, or did (does) Weir SUCK?

no, it's just you.

Personally, life would not be the same without Bob's shorts and vocalcord destroying growls in Estimated prophet. He was/is an important part of the Dead sound

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 7, 2009 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Just me, or did (does) Weir SUCK?

Ha! There you go! Those shorts alone are worth it all...

I will say, though, that Clean Cut Look that he seemed to first sport at the Sept 75 show in GGatePark we were speaking of the other day, really did throw me--seemed so counter to the whole scene (was reminded of it by the those pics someone--Helives?--posted with the great ones of Jerry in his leather jacket on that nippy afternoon)...Like the cover to his Heaven Help the Fool album? Thought he was looking for the Vegas Night Club look or some such...maybe it was the disco open collar aspect?

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Mar 7, 2009 10:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Just me, or did (does) Weir SUCK?

I can't put it in such technically accurate terms as you can, as I'm not a musician, but i appreciated the example of GSET 2/17/79 for a time when Bobby fucked with the "call back" at the end of a Garcia run...and I feel there are many examples of this throughout show histiry...owever, my question--again, as a non-musician--is: How can you know for sure that was Weir's fault all the time?

Listening on tape to many examples, i often wonder if in fact Jerry himself wanted to take another solo run and maybe HE messed up the timing? I'm just curious as to how you can tell--not SEEING the action on stage--that Weir is to blame in such instances?

as to his slide skills--I have to admit, he annpyed the crap outta me with that thing, and two great examples are from 1978: He kills an otherwise AMAZING Fire on the Mountain (4/24/78) with a screeching slide that just makes you want to eat your own ears...and on Werewolves from 7/8/78 he's equally as shrill...never could understand why he didn't listen back and think "i oughta dial that down"...then again, how could they not have listened back to 8 years of Donna and not thought the same?

Ultimately, Weir was just a part of the band you have to accept AND give him his due that his SOUND...however flawed from a player perspective, WAS part of what made the Dead SOUND like the Dead...and as we all know, there was NO OTHER SOUND LIKE IT. (a variation of "They're not the best at what they do... they're the only ones that do it").

Ultimately, I'm one of those Deadheads (70+ shows since 1979) who doesn't listen to full shows anymore and invariably just listens to favorites plucked from the thousands of shows we have left to marvel over Most of those are Jerry tunes...which tend to be my favorite anyway.

So the Weir factor for me isn;t as prohibitive as it might be for you.

Oh, and i ALWAYS fast forward past a LLR....."and that's not gonna chaaaaaay---ayyyyy-aaaaaynge."

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Poster: Operator 552 Date: Mar 8, 2009 12:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Just me, or did (does) Weir SUCK?

>>Oh, and i ALWAYS fast forward past a LLR....."and that's not gonna chaaaaaay---ayyyyy-aaaaaynge."<<

Hi-larious.
In response:
>>i appreciated the example of GSET 2/17/79 for a time when Bobby fucked with the "call back" at the end of a Garcia run...and I feel there are many examples of this throughout show histiry...owever, my question--again, as a non-musician--is: How can you know for sure that was Weir's fault all the time?... i often wonder if in fact Jerry himself wanted to take another solo run and maybe HE messed up the timing? I'm just curious as to how you can tell--not SEEING the action on stage--that Weir is to blame in such instances?<<

Well the question is good, but I saw it happen plenty in person. But beside that... no. Weir's boo-boo. Sorry. How often did you ever hear Weir start to sing a new verse and Jerry charge back in and step on it for another go-round? The answer is NEVER. The example I bring up is not that maybe Garcia kept going and somehow didn't provide a good spot for Weir to resume... the other way around: Garcia would wrap it up very nicely and Weir would be either lost in Bob-World, or, doing the Angry Bull stomp to show everyone that he was playing his ass off or something.

Strumming a guitar really really loud isn't kick-ass. It isn't "playing your ass off." It's just playing loud. And sometimes, it is being totally inattentive to what your band-mates are doing.

I think the title of the original post should have been: Did Weir suck a little too often?

Too many people here are hearing me say that everything he did was worthless, even though I tried to preface it by mentioning how much I've always loved the music and still listen to it.

Other people keep saying something like, "Well, Weir never claimed to be the player that Jerry was..." Well, Jerry's skill has nothing to do with this thread. I mean, really, what is the logic in that? Jerry was so great that we have to cut Bob some slack? Like for every click that Jerry's talent goes up, we should expect and allow Bob's to drop? I don't think you get a pass because you play next to someone who is good.

I really liked his rhythm sound for a long time. But as I mentioned at the outset, I was just dismayed over the years that it got worse and worse. For a man with any gear in the world at his disposal, this can only mean one thing: bad taste. And meanwhile, the actual quality of the stuff he played seemed to go steadily down hill over the years.

But really, my original interest with this thread was to explore the extent of what seems to be a pretty widespread denial among Deadheads about Weir's playing. People tell me it's blasphemous to diss Bob, like it's somehow disrespectful to the band. Well fuck that, I gladly handed over lots of my money over the years. GLADLY! I had great times! And in a way I can even say that I love Weir's part in the band. That does not mean that I am under some loyalty to never mention The Elephant in the Room.

It's OK to love someone and also get real about the fact that they do some bad shit.

I don't even want to get into his singing, which curiously enough, lots of people have volunteered, even while wanting me to cool it.

And no one is saying that his tunes didn't contribute. That's also not the point. I love Estimated Prophet, but unfortunately, Estimated Prophet does not mean the his slide playing is OK after all.



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Poster: WHARFRAT Date: Mar 7, 2009 10:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Just me, or did (does) Weir SUCK?

Ahhh yes no estimated's with out Bob too.
Thanx Rasta.

This post was modified by WHARFRAT on 2009-03-07 18:19:22